佈告欄
山達基教會對本部落格諸多騷擾與恐嚇,版主覺得實在沒有意義。請大家參考我在右下方『山達基人必看連結』裡的那些部落格與網站,如果我這部落格觸犯法律,那些人豈不早就進大牢蹲著了? Get a life !!

這是另一位資深山達基人 Monnis 投書給版主的信。希望以他過來人的身分給台中的Crab一些建議。

 Monnis 是十多年的台灣早期山達基人,曾出入海洋機構,是另一位說話有份量的前山達基人。

以下

 

Crab你好:

看了你的問題,感慨萬千。在版主回覆之前不妨也聽聽我這過來人的意見。 

一般而言,等你課程結業想離開就難了,他們會針對你課程上的收穫來幫你規畫下一個課程,如此循環不已,直到把你送到國外上課聽析為止。

國外上課聽析的費用更是嚇人,但教會國外人員會說買這些都是為你好,錢不該成為阻擋生命成長的問題。你的錢當然絕不是他們的問題。等你負債沒錢了更不是他們的問題,到頭來全都還是你自己必須扛的問題。 

在其中,除了上課聽析的昂貴費用外,各式各樣巧立名目的捐款將接踵而至,而且不是自由捐獻,他們擺明了就是要你非捐一定數字不可,你不想捐,他們就多人圍攻你,甚至不准你離開,你說沒錢,他們就叫你打電話給有能力付錢的親友,反正目標金額非到手不可。

他們會說這些錢都是要拿去支援「聖戰」,對抗教會可怕的敵人,但沒人知道這些錢的真正流向。 

通常那些越陷越深的人多半有接受過聽析,誠實來看,聽析很像對抗低潮憂鬱的嗎啡,服用下去,低潮憂鬱會神速緩和,就像重傷患用嗎啡止痛一般;然而,聽析無法根治極嚴重的問題,就如同嗎啡可以緩和疼痛,但無法治療造成疼痛的病因,這時教會的人會建議你去上更高階課程提昇智慧,用智慧化解聽析解決不了的問題。

如此一來,相信的人就努力繼續花錢聽析上課,盼望有一天把問題給徹底解決,但是,你有把握在錢用盡之前把問題解決嗎? 

身邊有錢但是對生命感到茫然的人一接觸到山達基或許會如獲至寶,畢竟先前有錢也買不到他渴望的快樂,這樣的人,多半會成為強力的支持者,不過他要是先接觸到其他狂熱宗教,也一樣會狂熱支持。

所以這不單純是山達基的問題。要把這類的人勸離一個他狂熱支持的宗教很難,與其這麼做,還不如先不受他們影響比較實際。

相對理性或是較容易被影響的人應該才是你要努力的勸導對象,多和他們聊聊,發現他們目前遇到的盲點,把網路上的資訊展示給他們看,你會幫到很多人和他們下一代! 

最後,我必須坦承現在山達基外的世界一樣問題叢生,搞不好還更嚴重,而教會正是緊抓這些問題來強化教會存在的價值。 

自身渴望解決的麻煩加上社會層出不窮的問題,這就是為什麼和我一樣的「前山達基人」會深陷其中那麼久。如今,你的理性還未淪陷,未來會不會淪陷全仰賴你的智慧。 

祝福你了。

 

 

Monnis

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

資深山達基人 發表在 痞客邦 PIXNET 留言(50) 人氣()


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  • 台中~crab
  • 謝謝Monnis給我的建議,我知道自己該怎麼做了!
    謝謝史密斯太太協助提供訊息!
    謝謝我自己秉持理性客觀的態度檢視山達基,我只能說"無知,是一種罪惡"。
  • Monnis
  • 不客氣,正因為你提出了質疑,其他人因此才有機會瞭解更多。
    另外,倒數的那三段應該是連在一起的,中間也不需任何句點,這樣會較符合我原意。
  • Monnis,

    相信我,我是編輯,這是便於閱讀的網路文體,有別於一般印刷品的傳遞印象。接收螢幕上的東西就像看投影機,一張圖片裡的東西越少越容易記憶。

    原文我沒改一字。

    謝謝你的貢獻。

    資深山達基人 於 2010/12/30 16:47 回覆

  • crab
  • 我已經不想再去山達基了...教會仍然滿天打電話來「「關懷」+推銷旗艦機構晚會宣稱免費,輕鬆看影片吃喝玩樂!鬼才信哩?沒這麼好康的事...根據我在網路上蒐集到的資料,一定是捐款啦!
    另外,不只教會有問題,好像連賀伯特生平的人格、事蹟皆有問題?聽說"快樂之道是最諷刺的著作???既然賀伯特的著作沒問題,那......我開始霧煞煞了,因為我有買過9本書+3片DVD!
  • focus
  • 給樓上的crab:
    既然您買了書及DVD,就當作涉獵不同領域的書籍吧~
    山達基主要還是以高額的收費及想離開不自由為人所垢病!
  • Monnis
  • 旗艦機構晚會不光是要人捐款,還會死纏住你掏更多錢買旗艦機構的聽析,不掏錢就走不出晚會會場,很狠!
    問題不在賀伯特的著作有沒有問題,關鍵是這些書能給我們多少的幫助。像品格中的狀況公式,你覺得有用就繼續用,覺得沒用就丟棄它,但絕對沒必要因為有用就開始花大筆錢聽析上課,一直到嚴重負債為止。
    最後要告訴各位一個真相,為了聽析上課而嚴重舉債其實是違反個人狀況公式的,但卻滋養了教會的曲線,他大你小,所以你的死活不如教會重要,這就是山達基教會的最核心思想之一。
  • crab
  • 謝謝focus、Monnis回覆我這麼有用的高階資料!選擇離開是對的...
    旗艦機構這麼惡劣啊...簡直是土匪...不!整個山達基教會的所有一切簡直是流氓!
  • baikuang
  • 給樓上:其實並沒有到惡劣這種地步啦.....捐不捐款看個人囉~
  • baikuang,

    你這留言是標準的誤導。請問你在教會資歷幾年?case level and training level?
    你是職員嗎?

    這個「個人」看起來是指被勸說捐款的人,實際上,真的要看是那個職員。職員有曲線壓力,會無所不用其極,軟硬兼施,道德勸說,限制自由,動用人情攻勢......這些不是經歷過的人是不會懂的。

    請你不要如此誤導,不懂裝懂,更不要替教會粉飾罪過,除非你的資歷比我們都資深。或者,您的銀行帳戶比我們耐操。

    少來這套,我們過來人已經被撥三層皮,嚴重失血......沒有人會買你這種說法。除非是菜鳥加冤大頭!



    資深山達基人 於 2011/01/13 13:45 回覆

  • Falco
  • 離開是對ㄉ,要不然就有無止境的捐款及買高價課程.
  • CRAB
  • 先前總是聽到一些接受淨化程式的人做分享,最常聽到的改變是"眼睛變亮了""視覺更有立體感了",請教在這裡瀏覽的前輩們,淨化程式是否有醫學根據,賀伯特宣稱毒素囤積在脂肪,為何不是內臟呢?淨化程式費用貴得嚇人啊~~~
  • Hi, Crab:

    淨化程式或許有它的療效,但是因為教會掛羊頭賣狗肉,不敢保證結果,聲稱淨化程式是非治療療程,既然非療程,何來的進展與改變?

    又教會愛財又黑暗,不讓淨化程式接受一般大眾及醫學的檢驗,只顧自說自話,自行收費,沒有進步的空間。即使有效,也因為太貴看不出價值。

    因為不讓醫學界檢驗,所以療效不一,做完與否完全自由心證,有哪種醫學是這樣運作的?

    肝臟是脂肪構成的,許多毒素囤積在肝臟裡。

    資深山達基人 於 2011/02/05 16:30 回覆

  • CRAB
  • 謝謝史密斯太太解惑!
  • dear
  • 請問怎麼退捐款?
    我的書都沒拆 是用刷卡的
    花了上千塊
    我要退
  • 你發票有留著嗎?你必須去跟中心的賣書部門交涉,或是跟當初賣你書的職員交涉,他有收到15 %的佣金,教會勢必會追回這款項。

    退費是個三不管地帶,這燙手山芋是人人推的。我建議你連同發票影印之後,寫存證信函給中心,表明要退書,只有寫下來的東西才是真的,尤其是俱有法律效力的東西。

    千萬不要把書帶到中心,丟給他們。因為,退款要層層上訴,不會在台灣就把錢退給你,可能還有你簽棄權書有的沒的。

    幾千塊是台幣嗎?你可以試著轉賣,如果教會不干涉的話。

    資深山達基人 於 2011/04/17 18:32 回覆

  • Dear
  • 有還留著,給哪個中心?是書連同發票嗎?我算是新人~完全不懂~
    我刷了兩個課程,我還有一個研習班還沒上 應該可以退費
    麻煩妳了~
    還有我方便直接聯絡你媽? 因為我得關電腦了還有我不能用悄悄話
    感恩!
  • 我住國外,電話費很貴。我的電郵 mrssmith@kimo.com

    你跟哪個中心註冊,就去那個中心。

    先提出發票影本說明要退書,中心答覆願意退之後,再拿書跟發票去中心。記得要他們簽收,否則,會一去不回。退款是個三不管地帶,你自己要監督過程。

    資深山達基人 於 2011/04/17 18:47 回覆

  • 路人甲
  • 不要的書轉賣給別人,似乎沒什麼道義....

    路過看過之後,總感覺都是一些宗教狂熱份子,
    而且教會又不是補習班,為什麼會退費??

    更跨張的是,上述兩位太太都說自己是很資深的前輩,
    自己在裡面打混了十多年,這十多年不知道自己是不是也是狂熱的向別人推銷自己的宗教,現在卻反過來自打嘴巴...

  • 你沒買過二手書嗎?不買二手書就是有道義嗎?

    教會裡有設學院,收學費,賣教材......商業行為,不應該受約束嗎?

    多少人加入共產黨又退出?那是自掌嘴巴嗎?這是倆個不一樣的過程,人的良知會被利用,有人際關係就會受到牽累......你有沒有出過社會?

    你這一輩子大概沒有交錯朋友、選錯對象、買錯東西、走錯路、唸錯學校、做出錯誤決定、選錯地方留言、講錯話被修理......您真棒!

    社會需要你,山達基需要你。

    資深山達基人 於 2011/05/29 16:23 回覆

  • focus
  • 給樓上路人甲閣下:
    非常佩服路人甲閣下的覺察能力。閣下竟然有能力在路過的短短時間內,發覺問題的重點:教會又不是補習班,怎能收取高額的費用!小弟愚痴,投入其中數年,繳交約十萬台幣的費用,才驚覺盲點所在。著實佩服閣下的覺察力,假如小弟當初便有如閣下敏銳的覺察力,就不會走冤枉路了。
    我想閣下一定是誤會了,小弟與諸位前輩都是良民,能奉公守法並堅守工作的崗位,絕非宗教狂熱份子,也並非反社會人格的偏激份子。當初進入教會,只想學點東西,並沒想過要成為清新著或OT,更沒想過要清新宇宙,因為那些目標對小弟而言,太狂熱了。如果每個人都能像閣下那麼理性與冷靜,就不會發生假借宗教或靈修名義斂財的事件了。
    古人有言:人非聖賢,知錯能改,善莫大焉。周處能除三害,正因能勇於面對自己過去所犯的錯誤啊!
  • 他哪是路過?根本就是聽到風聲來的。

    路過那來那麼多既定成見?明明偏頗得厲害到不自知,還假裝中立不關他的事?

    這叫提謝籃假燒金!澳梨子裝頻果......

    教會明明就有白紙黑字的退費規定,她懂個屁!

    資深山達基人 於 2011/05/29 19:03 回覆

  • hirokichun
  • 您好!請問一下有沒有人成功從山達基那邊退費成功的呢?
    我前天有到當初接洽的中心去要求退費.....我有將發票和收據二張影印一份給山達基....正本我有自己留下來!書籍因為有拆封三本,我就把剩下未拆開的書+一片DVD還給他們......有拆過的書我只好認賠,我請山達基在我正本的收據備註說:退還哪些書籍....
    請問一下,我接下來是不是要密切的打電話詢問他們退費的工作天數要幾天?
    我擔心這件事會拖太久退費更難!還是我有必要寄存證信函給山達基,副本給消基會?哪一種方法是最快速解決退費這種事情呢?謝謝您!
  • 對不起,晚回你了。

    有成功退費的案例,但是都要親自監督就是了。退費沒有曲線,是燙手山芋。

    不管用什麼方法,要看跟你接洽的人的誠意,還有機構當週有沒有那筆預算或是收入退你錢。當然,整個山達基的即時政策也會有影響。

    不要急,要定下心,不要再受處理或是遊說,不要做任合握罐動作,不要簽署任何不平等退款協定或是棄權書。有上述情況出現,一定要告知消基會。

    希望以上資訊受用。

    資深山達基人 於 2011/06/26 22:07 回覆

  • hirokichun
  • 謝謝史密斯太太您的回覆。想再請教妳一下,我今天有接到山達基通知我何時去拿退費?請問親自去拿退費和請山達基轉帳給我,哪一種比較安全呢?正本收據和發票都還在我這裡!謝謝您!
  • 你的案子是教材,比較商業行為,教會會處理。請問,你想退的書拿回去了嗎?我建議你用寄的,有單據,跑不掉。

    我建議你用轉帳方式。多一道正式紀錄,對雙方都是保障。親自領取,有可能會再度面臨到人情攻勢,你的一念婦人之仁也會受到考驗,如此一來,很簡單的事情會變成來來去去的十八相送......幾年又過去了。

    如果你涉入不深,或許不會有這樣的困擾。一般機構退費,在這電子時代,應該也是轉帳最方便,也保險。

    記住,就算親取,也不要簽訂任何放棄任何犧牲自己利益或是言論自由的棄權書,那是不人道也不合法的。

    退費就是退費,那是你的錢,不是山達基欠你的錢,盡量簡單化。謊言才需要複雜。


    資深山達基人 於 2011/07/20 07:57 回覆

  • 訪客
  • 我不是山達基教徒,也不是反山達基教徒,純粹只是對這新名詞感到興趣上google查到這裡。
    網路上眾說紛紜,我不知道到底孰是孰非,我只看到板主對於稍有反對意見的留言都予以強烈批評和譴責,有些甚至接近謾罵,我想請問這是山達基影響您嗎?讓您也變成了一個狂熱反宗教者?
    還有您建議不想信教的網友把書賣給其它人,這豈不是自相矛盾?閣下都已經覺得山達基是個誑人的宗教,還要讓更多的人花錢去買書,去受騙?(根據您的講法)或是讓已經被騙的人去騙別人?
    還是其實山達基不是那麼壞,可以讓您為它推銷新書?
  • 1. 我沒有推銷它的新書,我是建議資源回收管道。他人的垃圾有可能是你的黃金。

    2. 我說過很多次,山達基教會不等於山達基,賀伯特先生的著作做有它學術及文學上的價值,但不是不容質疑的聖令。

    3. 你很顯然沒有做足功課,也看不懂我真正的訴求,才會覺得我在謾罵。我標題上說了,這是我十幾年的現身說法。另外,我在這裡所表現的情緒如果會讓你不舒服,這也是山達基善用的攻心術之一,我只是以其人之道還其人之身。

    4. 既然只是路過,為何會有「其實山達基不是那麼壞,可以讓您為它推銷新書?」這種置入性的偏頗批評?要中立也要裝得像一點。

    5. 我沒有反對誰要去信什麼宗教,我強調的是教會的腐敗,我親身參與山達基教會十幾年。我在這裡只討論過賀伯特的靈魂與宇宙觀點,沒有推銷教會的新書。那些書,老實說,尤其是中文版......根本不值得購買。在國外,山達基的書連送給圖書館都被拒絕。




    資深山達基人 於 2011/08/05 09:29 回覆

  • focus
  • 給樓上路過的訪客:
    不知您有沒有買過一些商品,如3C、汽車等,卻發現有了瑕疵,然後向廠商抱怨商品品質差,並要求更換的經驗?
    請問,像這樣的消費者是否就是"澳客"?
    小弟之前有接觸過山達基,山達基的品格官會給學員一個強烈的暗示:那些批評山達基的負面資訊,都是反社會人格人,或者偏差錯亂的人。
    所以早期山達基人在網路上與人辯駁,辯到最後都會搬出這條鐵律,也就是問對方是不是有吃精神科的藥?或者是不是有什麼不敢面對的?或者是不是品格有問題?...等等情緒性強烈的字眼。
    請問,難道您們都不覺得哪裡怪怪的嗎?
  • 台中~crab
  • 唉~~~說到教材(商品),山達基或戴尼提的9本入門書+3DVD,這樣一套商品當初以優惠價NT.3600購得,其中書與書之間有些章節有重複性,包括在教會買的課程內容也一樣,說實在的啦,小弟我終於鼓起勇氣離開教會一段時間了,這幾個月來飽受教會的奪命連環call都置之不理,為的就是不想再跟教會有任何瓜葛,我拒絕再跟山達基教會溝通!當然那一套書+3DVD,目前還塵封在房間的某個角落,尚不知如何處置它,即便如此我寧願自認倒楣,也不願轉售他人!因為不想誤人子弟啊~~~~~~
  • 研究者
  • 有沒有人捐贈DVD或已掃描的書籍作研究之用?那麼當你批評山達基時,別人不會說你從未讀什麼山達基。所有英文版本可在維基解密類型的網站找到。請貼您的文件的下載鏈接,或貼您的匿名聯繫方法。我們可以尊重版權法,只限公平使用,如果你要求的話。
  • 我與史密斯先生的山達基藏書非常多,只要是有出版過的幾乎都有買,而且還有重覆購買的,都是英文版。

    那些人批評我,因為他們不知道我是誰。就算知道了,在這節骨眼,只會把我劃成黑五類,不管我過去對教會有多少貢獻,也不管我的英文曾經幫助過他們。

    我是山達基翻譯社的翻譯及編輯,你說,我對山達基有沒有研究?我認識許多老山達基人,歐洲、美洲都有,要什麼資料,不難取得。

    我還是不太了解你這留言的意思,可否跟我私下連絡?

    mrssmith@kimo.com



    資深山達基人 於 2011/08/08 18:53 回覆

  • ccascientology
  • Mrs Smith, you know I have a donated website (not the blog) that can publish anything Scientology like Wikileaks, and have the book Dianetics (English) on it for some months now (for testing). I also like to publish Chinese Scientology books and DVD's.

    As I expected, you only have English versions. If you know any ex Scientologists who have Chinese versions, I'm happy to get it published online somewhere.

    Ideally, I hope to receive any material in the form of files. Otherwise, I can scan, I can rip content from DVD's, but receiving the book and DVD themselves are troublesome. See how it goes.
  • 台中~CRAB
  • 塵封在房間某角落的一些山達基入門書+課程,終於在今天銷毀丟到紙類回收的地方去了,心裡真是痛快啊~~~^0^

    雖然我已經離開山達基,跟山達基沒什麼干係了,突然想到還是會來逛逛,謝謝史密斯太太、 Monnis 、 focus 協助!

    各位加油,期盼這裡能幫那些走不知路的導回正途...加油囉!
  • 鄭凱丹
  • 是否可請教史密斯太太.我有一位朋友進了山達基之後他也去了加勒比海進修花了很多錢.他都會跟我說他看到了他的前世.你的等級如此高 是否也跟他一樣都看的到前世今生發生的事情?
  • 我的等級並不高。

    你知道西藏佛教的喇嘛是怎樣證明他的前世也是活佛,乘願再來繼承衣缽嗎?即使證據確著,那也是該教派文化,信者恆信,對不信者是一點意義也沒有。

    是真正的活佛,會找對人證明他的前世。你那位朋友我看是找錯人了......你就當他是在自我感覺良好吧。

    資深山達基人 於 2011/11/07 19:33 回覆

  • FOCUS
  • 給樓上的鄭小姐:
    淨空法師曾在學佛答問中提到:曾經有三位修行者覺得自己已經修行證道了,所以想找淨空法師幫他證明,但淨空法師卻有智慧的對三位說:我自己都還沒悟道,怎能幫你們證明呢?於是三人便拂袖而去。試想:一個已修行證道的人,怎麼還會有貪嗔痴?正如一個有正知正見的人,並不會到處顯現自己多有神通的。
  • 訪客
  • 淨化很貴真ㄉ可以去除藥物殘留嗎
    之前有吃過兩年憂鬱症ㄉ藥
    正在考慮做淨化中
    我很懷疑人生不再有低潮這本書有像職員說ㄉ那麼神奇
  • 我以前就回答過有關淨化程式的問題了,請參考:

    「淨化程式或許有它的療效,但是因為教會掛羊頭賣狗肉,不敢保證結果,聲稱淨化程式是非治療療程,既然非療程,何來的進展與改變?

    又教會愛財又黑暗,不讓淨化程式接受一般大眾及醫學的檢驗,只顧自說自話,自行收費,沒有進步的空間。即使有效,也因為太貴看不出價值。

    因為不讓醫學界檢驗,所以療效不一,做完與否完全自由心證,有哪種醫學是這樣運作的?」

    「值不值得,要看你的期待,還有做完的收穫及感想。基本上,淨化程式是有器質上的治療,但是成效是以精神上的判斷為標準。你如果期待排除身體上所有的毒素,恐怕會是一調無法到達的路程。

    我的看法是,淨化程式是身體的聽析,跟所有聽析一樣,是有等級的,身體對毒素的察覺是有階段性的,不能只做一次......不過,目前以他們大部份一生只做一次的療法,是比較有失客觀。而且,每個人達到成效的天數不一,收費是有點昂貴。

    你可以買 Clear body, clear mind 這本書閱讀後,照著做。賀伯特寫書的用意是鼓勵大家DIY的。」






    另外,回答下面的不方便公開身分的悄悄話留言:

    你不方便公開身分,我也不方便回答你......拭目以待。


    資深山達基人 於 2012/02/05 11:15 回覆

  • 山達基正在告當過FSO艦長17年的Debbi Cook,因她寄出一封信給山達基人。說超出終生會員的IAS捐款和理想機構捐獻是不符LRH規章的。
  • 不知你是否收到此信? 供你參考。 尚無法公開的無名氏 留
    Dear Friend,
    I am emailing you as a friend and fellow Scientologist. As we enter a new year, it is hoped that 2012 can be a year of great dissemination and a year of real progress up The Bridge for all Scientologists.

    Although I am not in the Sea Org right now, I served in the Sea Org at Flag for 29 years. 17 of those years were as Captain FSO. I am a trained auditor and C/S as well as an OEC, FEBC and DSEC.

    I am completely dedicated to the technology of Dianetics and Scientology and the works of LRH. I have seen some of the most stunning and miraculous results in the application of LRH technology and I absolutely know it is worth fighting to keep it pure and unadulterated.

    My husband and I are in good standing and we are not connected with anyone who is not in good standing. We have steadfastly refused to speak to any media, even though many have contacted us.

    But I do have some very serious concerns about out-KSW that I see permeating the Scientology religion.

    I have the utmost respect for the thousands of dedicated Scientologists and Sea Org members. Together, we have come through everything this world could throw at us and have some real impingement on the world around us. I am proud of our accomplishments and I know you are too.


    However there is no question that this new age of continuous fundraising is not our finest moment.

    LRH says in HCO PL 9 Jan 51, An Essay on Management, "drop no curtains between the organization and the public about anything.”-LRH

    Based on this policy I am communicating to you about some situations that we need to do something about within our religion, within our group.

    Actions that are either not covered in policy or directly violate LRH policy and tech include the extreme over-regging and fund-raising activities that have become so much a part of nearly every Sea Org org and Class V org as well as every “OT Committee”. This fundraising is not covered anywhere in LRH policy.

    Hardworking Sea Org members and the dedicated staff of orgs around the world aren't choosing to do these actions. Nor are the OTs. I am sure they would be more than happy if they could just get on with direct dissemination of Scientology as they have done for so many years.

    But the truth is that this is being driven from the very highest echelons within the Scientology structure and clearly there is a lot of pressure to make targets that are being set.

    The IAS: The IAS was created unbeknownst to LRH in 1984 by Marc Yager and David Miscavige. This was supposed to be based on LRH policies on the subject of membership and the HASI, however the IAS is nothing like the membership system described by LRH which only has two memberships and is covered in HCO PL 22 March 1965 “Current Promotion and Org Program Summary, Membership Rundown” and states: “There are two memberships…”- LRH

    LRH lists there the INTERNATIONAL ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP and gives its cost at 10 pounds sterling or $30 US. He also lists a LIFETIME MEMBERSHIP which is priced at $75 US. There are no other memberships or statuses approved or known to LRH.

    Furthermore, membership monies are supposed to go directly to the org where the membership is signed up, and the money used for dissemination by that org, in that area. This is covered in HCOPL 1 Sept 1965R Membership Policies.

    “It all goes into the HCO Book Account in the area where the membership is brought and is not part of the organization's weekly gross income. Membership monies go to dissemination”.- LRH

    Currently membership monies are held as Int reserves and have grown to well in excess of a billion dollars. Only a tiny fraction has ever been spent, in violation of the policy above. Only the interest earned from the holdings have been used very sparingly to fund projects through grants. In fact many of the activities you see at IAS events are not actually funded by the IAS, but rather by the Scientologists involved.

    Think about it, how many ads disseminating Scientology, Dianetics or any Scn affiliated programs have you seen on TV? Heard on the radio? Seen in newspapers? I haven't seen one in the 4 years I have lived in San Antonio, Texas, the 7th largest city in the US. How many have you seen?

    Donating anything more than a lifetime membership to the IAS is not based on LRH policy. The article “What Your Donations Buy” (The Auditor, The Monthly Journal of Scientology No. 51, 1970) is clearly talking about how the church
    uses your donations for Dianetics and Scientology services. Next time you are asked to donate outside of services, realize that you are engaged in fundraising and ask to see something in writing from L. Ron Hubbard that this is something he expects from you as a Scientologist.

    New Org Buildings: LRH also never directed the purchase of opulent buildings or the posh renovations or furnishings for every org.

    In fact, if you read HCO PL 12 March 75 Issue II, “The Ideal Org”, which is what this program has been called, and nowhere in it will you find 20 million dollar buildings or even any reference to the poshness of org premises at all as part of LRH’s description of an “Ideal Org”. Instead, an Ideal Org was one that delivered and moved people up The Bridge – something that is not part of this “Ideal Org” program.

    LRH says in the PL that an Ideal Org: “would be clean and attractive enough not to repel its public” – LRH.

    This is all it says about the state of the building.

    As a result of this off-policy alteration of the Ideal Org PL, we have the majority of top OTs, now deemed “OT Ambassadors”, heavily engaged in fund-raising activities that include “bingo”, “pirate dinners”, “knitting classes”, “hay rides”, and many other activities strictly revolving around raising funds for the required multi-millions of dollars to fund their “Ideal Org”. As part of this, people around every org are now asked to donate to their local “Ideal Org” instead of their own services or their own Bridge.

    LRH says in HCO PL Org Ethics and Tech: “GET RID OF DISTRACTIONS FROM SCIENTOLOGY in your org. Baby-sitting or raffle tickets and such nonsense.”-LRH

    Yet these distractions are rampant as they are being used as fund-raisers to get money for the huge quotas being issued to fund the “Ideal Org”.

    “If the org slumps… don’t engage in ‘fund-raising’ or ‘selling postcards’or borrowing money. Just make more income with Scientology. It’s a sign of very poor management to seek extraordinary solutions for finance outside Scientology. It has always failed.”

    “For orgs as for pcs, ‘Solve It With Scientology’.

    “Every time I myself have sought to solve financial or personnel in other ways than Scientology I have lost out. So I can tell you from experience that org solvency lies in more Scientology, not patented combs or fund-raising barbeques.”
    HCO PL 24 February 1964, Issue II, Org Programming, (OEC Vol. 7, p. 930)

    The point is that Scientologists and OT’s need to be training, auditing and disseminating to raw public- not regging each other or holding internal fundraisers.

    Out Tech: Over the last few years we have seen literally hundreds and hundreds of people who were validated as clear using the CCRD as developed by LRH now being told they are not Clear. This included hundreds of OTs who were then put onto NED as a “handling”. LRH clearly forbid any Dianetics to be run on OTs in HCOB “Dianetics Forbidden on OTs”. This is out tech. This entire technical “handling” was directed personally by COB RTC and was done on thousands of OTs. But it was based not on an LRH HCO Bulletin, but rather based on a single C/S instruction where LRH C/Sed one pre-OT who had not achieved the state of clear but was mid OT III and not making it. LRH directed a solo handling that the pre-OT was to do to get himself to achieve the state of Clear. This LRH C/S taken out of context was then used to implement a technical handling that was in direct violation of an LRH HCOB.

    This and other “technical handlings” done on Solo NOTs auditors created great expense and hardship on Solo NOTs auditors around the world as they were made to do these handlings to continue on the level.

    Then there are the “fast grades at Flag” that no other org has. How can it be that Flag has been delivering grades differently to the rest of the world for the last 3 years? Whatever the problem is, the fact is that having “fast Grades” at Flag creates a hidden data line and is a HIGH CRIME and the subject of an entire policy letter called HCOPL “TECH DEGRADES” which LRH has placed at the start of every Scientology course.

    More recently the fad seems to be that nearly everyone needs to “re-do their Purif and do a long objectives program”, including many OTs mid Solo NOTs.

    There is nothing wrong with doing objectives, but it is a clear violation of HCOB ‘MIXING RUNDOWNS AND REPAIRS” to have a person mid a rundown or OT level be taken off it and placed on an objectives program.

    Solo NOTs auditors are also being made to get their objectives from a Class IX auditor at great expense as they are not being allowed to co-audit.

    Flag has made many millions of dollars on the above listed out tech handlings because OTs mid Solo NOTs are forced to get these out-tech actions to be able to get back onto and stay on the level and complete it. Not to mention the spiritual effects of the out tech that this has on each OT.

    I myself was subject to these out tech “handlings”, including extensive FPRD mid Solo NOTs. It took its toll in many ways, including physical situations I am still dealing with today. So I have some reality of the hardship caused.

    LRH Command Structure: LRH left us with a complex and balanced command structure, with our orgs led by the Office of ED International. This office was considered so important that LRH created a special management group called the Watch Dog Committee whose only purpose was to see that this office and the other needed layers of management existed. LRH ED 339R speaks of this extensively as the protection for our Church. But these people are missing. And not just some. As of just a few years ago there were no members of the office of ED Int on post, not to mention top execs throughout the International Management structure.

    You may have also wondered… where is Heber, the President of the Church? What about Ray Mitthoff, Senior C/S International, the one that LRH personally turned over the upper OT Levels to? How about Norman Starkey, LRH's Trustee? What happened to Guillaume – Executive Director International? And Marc Yeager, the WDC Chairman? What happened to the other International Management executives that you have seen at events over the years?

    The truth is that I spent weeks working in the empty International Management building at Int. Empty because everyone had been removed from post. When I first went up lines I was briefed extensively by David Miscavige about how bad all of them were and how they had done many things that were all very discreditable. This seemed to “explain” the fact that the entirety of the Watchdog Committee no longer existed. The entirety of the Executive Strata, which consisted of ED International and 11 other top International executives that were the top executives in their particular fields, no longer existed. That the Commodore’s Messenger Org International no longer existed. All of these key command structures of Scientology International, put there by LRH, had been removed.

    There were hundreds and hundreds of unanswered letters and requests for help from org staff, written based on LRH ED 339R where LRH says that staff can write to these top executives in the Exec Strata for help. But this is not possible if all these execs have been removed and no one is there to help them or to get evaluations and programming done to expand Scientology.

    Well, after that I got to spend some quality time with Heber, Ray Mithoff, Norman Starkey, Guillaume, as well as the entirety of International Management at the time, who were all off post and doing very long and harsh ethics programs. These have gone on for years and to the only result of that they are still off post. There is no denying that these top executives have all gradually disappeared from the scene. You don't see them at the big events anymore or on the ship at Maiden Voyage.

    David Miscavige has now become the “leader” of the Scientology religion. Yet what LRH left behind was a huge structure to properly manage all aspects of the Scientology religion. He put a complete and brilliant organizational structure there, not one individual. There never was supposed to be a “leader” other than LRH himself as the goal maker for our group.

    There is a situation here and even if you have not been to the International Management Base you should be able to see that over regging and frequent tech changes are not OK and you have a responsibility to do something to Keep Scientology Working. You should be able to find and read the references on membership in OEC Volume 6. Find and read the HCO PL entitled “The Ideal Org” (Data Series 40). Find and read the references on org buildings, including HCO PL 24 Aug 65 II, Cleanliness of Quarters and Staff, Improve our Image. Also, HCO PL 17 June 69, The Org Image.

    If you don't want to make waves or put yourself in danger of being taken off the level or denied eligibility, then there are some simple things you can do. First and foremost, withdraw your support from off policy actions. Stop donating to anything other than your own services and actual Bridge progress. Simply demand to see an LRH reference that says you are required to make other such donations. No one will be able to produce any references because there aren't any.

    Stop supporting any of the activities that are being done to forward off-policy fund-raising in your area.

    LRH says what he expects of a Scientologist – that is what he expects you to do. In fact he put it in HCOB 10 June 1960 Issue I, Keeping Scientology Working Series 33, WHAT WE EXPECT OF A SCIENTOLOGIST. Read it and follow it.

    The other thing you can do is to send this email to as many others as you can, even if you do it anonymously.

    Please keep this email among us, the Scientologists. The media have no place in this. You may wonder why I have not written a KR and gone about my business. The answer is, I have. But there is no longer anyone to send that KR to.

    But you can and should write reports and bring off-policy to the attention of local org executives and local Sea org members.

    We are a strong and powerful group and we can affect a change. We have weathered many storms. I am sorry that I am the one telling you, but a new storm is upon us. It's waves are already in the media and the world around us.

    The truth is that as a Scientologist you are more able, more perceptive and have a higher integrity. Scientology is supposed to allow you to “think for yourself” and never compromise your own integrity. And most certainly LRH held every Scientologist responsible to KEEP SCIENTOLOGY WORKING.

    I am not trying to do anything other than affect a change in serious off policy actions occurring. My husband and I have most of our family and many many good friends who are Scientologists. I have not been real interested in sticking my neck out like this.

    However, I also know that I dedicated my entire adult life to supporting LRH and the application of LRH technology and if I ever had to look LRH in the eye I wouldn't be able to say I did everything I could to Keep Scientology Working if I didn't do something about it now.

    We all have a stake in this. It is simply not possible to read the LRH references and not see the alterations and violations that are currently occurring.

    You have a very simple obligation to LRH. Don't participate in anything off policy, and let others know they should not either. If every person who reads this email does nothing more than step back from off-policy actions we
    would have changed direction. If we took all that energy and directed it into auditing, training and raw public dissemination, we would be winning.

    And that is what I wish for you and all of us as we ring in this new year.

    ARC,

    Debbie Cook
  • 無名氏
  • 一月6日的ABC新聞:
    Former Executive Debbie Cook Speaks Out Against Scientology. [abc News 6th Jan 2012]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLXgOewffko&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

    任職旗艦機構17年的前艦長(Debbi Cook)今年寄給山達基人一封信,山達基官方教會竟然將她告上法庭,告她違反"保密協定",說她叛教、從未在國際教會工作過。

    Debbi的信,除了提到off PL的over-reg、fund-rasing外,還提到Out-Tech、Out-management (Int Management都空了,只剩一個leader)。

    內部的Out-KSW,對於奉獻27年的SO職員來說,相信她寫這封信時,一定是痛心疾首...

  • ccascientology
  • 昨天那個捐孤兒院的無名氏才是我!

    既然我在這裡,讓我介紹一下我的新影片:「那些年,山達基怎樣害我一家。」
  • 小蝶
  • 兩個月前,因為同校的學長拼命的邀約,我挨不過人情攻勢,到了他們那邊去上課,才得知山達機這個東西。當天,經過一連串的介紹,還有經過測驗,我有點半被強迫買了他們一個課程(他們會用激將法),緊接著又想要讓我買一本厚厚的書,不過當時因為經濟壓力的關係,沒有買那本厚厚的書。上課那天,繳交完學費之後,又人情攻勢要我成為介紹性會員(剛開始的時候,他們都沒有說清楚他們的機構是教會,只回答我說是非營利機構,後來才講說是教會。)。原先不以為意,不過後來不斷的用軟硬交叉手段,想要我空出一、兩天的整天時間做志工,他們聲稱這樣才會學到東西。接著又挑戰我,問我:「為何要去打工賺錢,錢有那麼重要嗎?你拼命賺錢,又能得到甚麼?錢賺很多很多的時候,又能怎樣?」從這事件之後,我開始覺得有些不高興,起了要離開的念頭。看到這邊所寫有關於山達基教會的評論,使我更加確信我那不舒服的感覺是真的。

    謝謝你們的分享
  • Monnis
  • 小蝶,謝謝妳的分享,這樣的資訊是相當寶貴的。

    教會的邏輯真的很有趣,如果錢不重要,那麼教會為什麼不從自己做起,大幅調低學費、聽析費和捐款?
  • 徐肇良
  • 他們會用各種的行銷手法逼你買下各種課程, 然後又用一些什麼拯救世界的言論, 逼你臣服于他們, 所謂真正的大義!!是建立在周遭人的幸福之上, 他們有所謂的品格科, 會說你哪裡不好怎樣之類的, 必須要當“好人” 而這好人的定義, 是忠誠的教徒才是好人, 你只要思考一個點就好了, 那他們何不把他們的錢捐出來, 讓大家來上課, 不是要普渡眾生??這個宗教已經被確確定定列為邪教, 至今已殘害眾多家庭破碎!!本人曾經深陷, 還好遇到貴人!!經由善誘, 才看清楚這個宗教的真面目, 他們下次打過來, 你就說你沒錢, 叫他們拿錢來讓你上課, 他們在那邊哎, 說這有多好多好, 你就叫他們自己慢慢上即可!!有一些技術是有那麼一點點效果, 但這就像是給你糖吃, 要你進來糖果屋, 最終目的!!!你的錢!!!!!!!!你的時間!!!!!!困死你!!!!!!如果你福氣不夠!!!!!最終要你家破人亡!!他們只會說你pts, 然後把你從名單捨棄, 別傻傻的把自己奉獻給這群邪魔歪教!!
  • 徐肇良
  • 關鍵點在於, 一但你接受了 那些什麼反應式心靈 雜七雜八的觀點, 開始跟你周遭的人做對, 還是莫名其妙地做對, 你就準備進入死亡旋窩...你爸你媽給你紅包, 兩千塊你愛死她, 現在要上課, 他不給, 教會會說你pts, 然後你爸你媽瞬間變成有問題的反應式心靈個體, 你的朋友只要有人不挺你山達基, 你也必須不斷否定他們的觀點, 山達基才是對的, 你原本很善良, 對別人都很好, 你爸你媽你另一半還有你賺錢很辛苦, 但只要拿不出巨額金錢來上課, 或家人反對, 他們會不斷的用一大堆手段, 逼你從他們身上或者你身上掏錢出來, 然後你就準備等死吧...別說什麼前世之類好像很強, 網路上可以看到前世的一堆, 但真正的大師都嚴格否定別人自己看前世, 因為別人都是通過層層考驗, 身心靈都達到一個頂峰, 才去碰前世, 因為那非常容易走火入魔, 他們隨便讓你碰, 你走火入魔, 呵呵...你會聽到一句話“你這狀態很危險, 為了你好, 你必須前往雪梨作聽析, 費用四十萬“ 準備滅亡吧...
  • Monnis
  • 剛剛看到一篇「山達基高壓賣書不退款事件」,標準的山達基教會強迫推銷模式,很具參考價值,大家不妨進去讀一讀。
  • 訪客
  • Monnis板主 你是精神分裂之人 自己都不知自己在表達什麼?你是林正芳對不對ㄚ!
    我是有產品的有品格的有正義的有使命的謝碧霞
  • 這位施主,

    您過去是誰、現在是誰、以後會是誰......真的沒有人感興趣,真的。

    至於您是怎樣一個人,也真的只有您自己知道,我們真的不需要知道......真的。

    你在網路上指名Monnis精神分裂,已構成公然毀謗,我希望你會知道這是法律,也希望你有那行為能力約束自己,或是接受犯法的結果......除非你是精神病患。

    我說的都是真的。

    資深山達基人 於 2012/07/12 08:52 回覆

  • Focus
  • 又是一個非黑即白的觀點,真的不知道樓上那位訪客要表達什麼?用最近最夯的新聞話題做例子:難道沉起翔(看得懂就好)的話都不能信?014的話才能信?如果依教義來看,二位話題人物都是非品格的人,為何檢調要相信沉起翔?而不相信014?
  • Monnis
  • 哈哈,我不是林正芳,別把無辜的人牽扯進來啊。

    謝碧霞,我也認識,不過現在道不同,只能祝妳一路順風啦。
  • 訪客
  • Monnis你好:我是那為謝碧霞你如何認識我 就是不認識你 你認識我台灣有多少個謝碧霞呢?
  • Monnis 的留言中說到認識謝碧霞,可沒說認識你,對吧?別忘了你是匿名訪客,卻在留言中點名直指 Monnis 精神分裂。

    您叫什麼沒人有興趣,這裡是文章回應區,私人認知有問題請自理,我不是醫生。

    這是我最後一次回覆你的留言。


    資深山達基人 於 2012/07/16 09:48 回覆

  • Focus
  • 給樓上有品格有產品有正義有使命的人士:您轉得也太硬了吧!網路上發言是有法律責任的,要事先想清楚,別因版主提醒您,您才再改口。以您的邏輯還是駁不倒Monnis前輩的,正如:小弟認識林志玲,但林志玲就不認識小弟。所以別說別人不認識您喔!下次發言要先想清楚。
  • Monnis
  • 所有因為對海洋機構內幕不清楚而猶豫是否要履行(或簽下)合約的人,在此建議輸入『足以令每個臺灣父母震驚的山達基海洋機構』,先進去看看人家怎麼說。要決定這種事之前如果連本身最基本的權益都不清楚,只能說真的非常危險。
  • cgcone1
  • 版主好`前陣子`在某網站`做了牛津能力測驗`
    過沒幾天後`本人接到一位女士來電`
    說要幫我做更詳細分析`防衛心很重的我`第一句說`要錢嗎`
    對方回答`他們是研究機構`義務分析...等`
    要當資料庫用...叫我不用擔心`
    便不疑有他`至南京東路5段山達基教會`

    本人承認`目前身心疲憊`情緒非常不穩定`低潮到谷底`
    原本就打算做心理諮商了`後被聽析員`
    一來一回分析後`自己也莫名其妙`感覺所有負面能量都被釋放出來`
    有解決嗎`(我自己也不知道`當下只是感覺有好一點)

    於是對方`更進一步推銷自家產品`戴尼提dvd$450元`和禮拜六課程$500元
    很妙`我居然很樂意掏腰包買下來`也沒想很多`
    因為忽然感覺有人了解你...等
    接著對方說`他們是做義工`幫助需要幫助的人`

    回家後`仔細回想`才感覺怪怪的`
    因為購買產品的話`不是要開產品收據或是發票嗎`
    對方的收據居然開`不定期捐款`也沒明細...等
    這不是想退貨的客人`沒收據可以證明買了哪些東西嗎`
    另外`電話中不是說研究機構嗎`義務分析嗎`前後矛盾`

    這些跡象讓人想查一下網路`才得知這裡`
    當下也是被聽析員分析`(你說有用嗎`實話說`很有用)
    可是真的解決問題嗎(沒有ㄟ還是要靠自己)
    頂多能幫助自己如何面對情緒管理`
    這些訪間資料不是一堆嗎`(好奇怪)
    為何當下就有想購買的衝動`

    現在問題是`這禮拜六的課程`
    本人已經花了500元`要過去聽嗎`
    如果又是類似強迫買產品的話`怎麼辦`
  • 溺水中的人會抓住任何一支稻草,請不要為自己一時的迷惑感到罪惡或是覺得對誰有所歉疚,這只是 一個每個人都會經歷的過程。

    你能在這階段發現這些矛盾不合理之處,表示你的情況並沒有那麼糟,在山達基把你所有的良知收買邀功之前,趕快去把錢要回來。

    你如果去了那個週六課程,一定會再被強迫推銷,然後被鼓吹簽約加入無償職員,壓力會變本加劇,再回頭已是百年身,請勿自誤。

    請你寫存證信函要求退款,光是商業行為用不定期捐款為會計項目就是不對,尤其在沒有告知他們是教會的情況之下。山達基在台灣如果是立案的宗教,就必須明明白白、清清楚楚的告知大眾,這樣曖昧不明的先斬後奏是非法的。

    你永遠可以訴諸消基會及媒體,台灣是自由的法治社會。

    坊間有許多心理諮詢及成長課程,許多獨立山達基人也有類似服務,你多做搜尋不難找到。在本版刊登離教宣言的楊鎮嘉先生仍在職業中,你可以參考他的意見。

    資深山達基人 於 2012/08/30 08:23 回覆

  • Focus
  • 給樓上的cg cone:
    對推銷員而言,只要行人肯停留腳步填問卷或接受免費贈品,就是成功一半了;同樣,只要會做牛津分析的人,對教會而言,也是成功一半了,因為這樣的行為對推銷員及教會來說,都代表容易被說服。
    其實牛津分析也沒什麼,答案就是要符合賀伯特的學說,如果沒有,職員就說你不快樂、狀況不好,需要上課。舉例來說:有一題是"即使你的健康和收入容許你養育更多子女,你會仍只想要生育二個或更少的小孩嗎?"這題就是依據情緒等級裡的"喜歡生育"、"喜歡小孩",如果你選是,那你就符合標準答案。但一般人都會考慮目前社會情況來作答,所以會選否。選項答案就非黑即白,所以這樣子的分析並不客觀,因此你的曲線表現不好,也不代表你真的那麼糟糕。
    真的,只要一去聽課,就沒完沒了。
  • 「牛津能力分析」那兩百題並不是山達基的東西,更不是賀伯特的原創,那是西方心理學的智慧財產,許多心理分析表單中的其中一張。只是因為年代久遠,智慧財產權已經變成大眾所有。

    這幾年我發現有些200題傳單被山達基宣稱是賀伯特寫的,這種馮京、馬涼不分的學術機構未免太下流了。


    資深山達基人 於 2012/08/31 16:03 回覆

  • Focus
  • 小弟班門弄斧,未經深入了解而僅憑一己之見,出糗了,在此認錯,也感謝版主更正。
  • 你沒有錯,不需道歉。

    因為山達基用那兩百題當入門,許多人都以為那是山達基。許多老山達基人都知道那不是賀伯特的原創。山達基為了行銷他的課程及諮詢,套入自己的分析,其實賀伯特才是真正的大松鼠,big squirrel.

    資深山達基人 於 2012/08/31 19:35 回覆

  • 悄悄話
  • 悄悄話
  • sandwich8193
  • 不好意思!我好像搞錯了,是史密斯太太…sorry~
  • ccascientology
  • 經過我有空沒事做的調查,這一篇文章被 bing 刪了(也許還有別的),因此整個部落格也刪了,要把 bing 的安全搜尋關閉才出現。安全搜尋的預設設定是中等而不是關閉,所以多數人和所有學校的電腦在搜索「山達基」時都見不到 mrssmith 的部落格在第一頁(我們其它的流量太少怎樣也見不到)。刪了只有是因爲有成人內容、有法庭下令、有人檢舉等。

    通常只可以檢舉在安全搜尋之下出現的成人網頁,而沒有人處理錯了的過濾。
  • Buffy Shih
  • 非常感恩網路有人分享這些,在看了國外媒體對山達基真相的揭露,更清楚這是一個可怕的騙局,但臺灣內政部卻讓這宗教合法,我們除了告知身邊的親友,還能做什麼積極抵制的方法呢?
  • 你的問題裡已經有答案了:『非常感恩網路有人分享這些,在看了國外媒體對山達基真相的揭露,更清楚這是一個可怕的騙局。』

    請善用媒體的力量,不要吝嗇分享你所知道、看到的,更不用說自己親身經驗過的。

    山達基這號稱有科學精神的宗教,最後卻敗在數位科學裡。大衛主席智商太差,連高中都念不畢業,不學無術,更不敵數位科學。

    資深山達基人 於 2013/12/30 00:01 回覆

  • Monnis
  • 今天恰巧看到山達基在電視打廣告,真是‧‧‧‧‧‧

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